Danilo - Art School Journey

[alexandra.d.93]

These proportions are turning out great !
I can clearly see that you're picking up on the measurements for each try.
Great job, really inspirational !

[dangras-almeida]

Thanks @alexandra.d.93! Really appreciate it
The lower parts of the body are still a bit of a challenge, but since this is more about the proportions themselves instead of getting every muscle or shape right, I'm trying "to be cool" about it and move on 😅

[dangras-almeida]

Alright, here we go:

Somebody HELP ME, please!
Damn, this exercise of measuring proportions is hard. I'm trying to follow the lesson and do it at the same time, but the part where Mark finds out about the center line and middle line + the boundaries of the drawing and then spotting the joints happens too fast and is hard to understand "the logic" behind it.

I confess that I ended up "cheating" a lot, because I was constantly putting the drawing on top of the reference, and was doing that back and forth to get the placements right, but one of the very first few rounds was a complete disaster.

I'm using a Wacom Intuos Pro 4 to do it straight in Photoshop, but I'm missing something.

When I think about it, it felt like I got the center (vertical) line wrong, and with that, the entire drawing collapsed, but I'm not sure if it's even that or something else.

Any help/knowledge sharing will be much appreciated 😄👍

Thanks!

[echoriel]

Hey!
I think a point of this whole grid is to help you compare angles and relations of body parts and negative space between them.
When you drawing from a reference and you want to achieve likeness you have to constantly compare your drawing to your reference.

Example:
Let's look at legs that you drew. Negative space between them is very wide in comparison to the reference.
And in terms of angles... his left arm (right one to us if we look at him), around this armpit area.. his arm and his torso together create a sharp angle of 45 degrees or so. And you compare that too.
Etc etc
It just takes a lot of time and patience in the begining always.
As for finding middle line, boundaries of the drawing - you literally divide your drawing into smaller sections which helps you notice things that you have to compare to achieve likeness.
Same for joints, u sort of eyeball it to lay down your first raw "skeleton" and once it's done u start comparing areas, negative spaces, angles etc

Idk if i explained ok
Hope it helps ^^'

[Shellac-Belly]

Hey Danilo!

That part of the video did go by kinda fast but I think I have a pretty good explanation for making the guides.

The vertical is perfectly fine where it is. It's function is to set the max height (the head in this case), and the minimum height (the feet), as well as measure the body (head lengths).

The horizontal line sets the width of the figure. It should probably extend from the tips of the fingers on the left, to the elbow on the right. (I think) Marc set his at the bottom of the pelvis but I don't know if that was intentional. It can help you lay out the proportions similarly to the proportion chart assignment.

After setting those two lines, you should be able to create a bounding box that encompasses the whole figure. This will help you figure out the proportions better as you will know that the figure shouldn't extend outside the box.

If you're finding this assignment difficult, I would suggest re-watching the video a couple times, without doing the assignment at the same time. I find it helpful to really give the video my full attention if I'm having trouble understanding, and then do the assignment while watching the video the second or third time. It might also help to the cylinders/line of action/skeleton first if you're still having trouble.

I hope this helps. Good luck!

[dangras-almeida]

Hey @echoriel

Thanks a lot for having the time to review this!

Now that you mention, I wasn’t really paying attention to the negative space the body creates when you compare back to the boundary box.
My approach was more to relate the positions while having the body (or places in the body) as the main reference. But now that I think of it, feels like that one approach complements the other, or at least is there to “challenge the other” when the other falls short (like, making sure things fall into the right place).

I also think I was making this exercise “harder” than it needs to be. I was taking too much distance to compare something that was right in front of me and also the stylus from the tablet is kinda “fat” and don’t let me see things clearly to mark the points down. From now on I’ll also try to measure things closer and using a regular pencil do mark down the areas while using the stylus to place the dots. Does it make sense? (Will this be kinda “cheating”?)

Once again thanks a lot for the explanation!

[dangras-almeida]

Hey @Shellac-Belly,

Thanks for the explanation!

Definitely a good idea to go through the video a few times over to get the hang of it. I’ll do that again 😊
Also, I appreciate the thought of starting with more basic shapes and build up from there. I’ll give that a try.

Thanks again for having the time to review this.

Cheers!

[dangras-almeida]

So,

Red lines are where the drawing was SUPPOSED to go, while dark lines are where the lines actually went. F*** me 😄

But it's alright, it's alright. I'll get there eventually. This time at least I didn't cheat and I got some things right (the head proportions, boundary box, even some of the joint markers were actually accurate). It's a good learning process.

I'm probably gonna stick with this lesson for a while. I'll try to draw this model correctly and once I do it, I'll move on to at least a few more before calling this complete.

Things that I noticed this time around:

1. The idea I had of getting my hand closer to the model to try to make measuring easy didn't work that well. Either it would hit the laptop keyboard while measuring down so I could finish measuring or I would measure the wrong way around because I wasn't stretching my arm.
2. Not sure if this is good or bad yet: instead of measuring everything in "heads", I tried to just grab a pencil and measure the distance from point A to B (say, chin to elbow) and then I would place a marker to the able. Worked for some, didn't work for all.
3. Using a pencil/mechanic pencil instead of the stylus to do the markers actually helped. Having one hand marking down while holding the pen made things a bit easier.
4. Even from watching the videos, I noticed that it's reasonable to say that the "vertical centerline" is not really that center since it starts from the chin. Not that you can't make a real center one, but I also found it easier to have the chin as a "center reference".
5. Next time, I'll try to add more markers for the torso. Trying to identify where things begin and end might help me figure out the shape a bit better.
6. Paying attention to negative spaces also paid off a bit, but I need to get better at it.

That's it, folks. I hope this helps someone (altho the only real to learn is to actually do it).

[echoriel]

Here are couple of videos that I think could also be helpful in learning how artists approach drawing from a still life.

Here's a video about sighting and measuring in drawing - you can see and hear how an artist approaches measuring as he goes about his drawing.

Shorte and quicker explanation
And again it can be all adapted to digital painting easily. As monitors are already usually at 90 degree angle and your reference is gonna be located way more comfortable rather than if u had to paint with an easel haha

[dangras-almeida]

Still not quite there yet.

The first tries I was able to locate the base for the torso and the right leg, but arms and left leg are still a challenge. I tried to highlight all the attempts so far.

Still didn't quite the that mental "click" yet of thinking "Ohhhhhhh that's why...".
Don't really know how to quite use the measurements yet. Some of the tries I had better luck just going straight from observing the reference instead of trying to measure anything to later mark and draw.

Let's keep going. One step at a time, one punch at a time, one round at a time.

Cheers,

[dangras-almeida]

Hey @echoriel,

Thanks a lot for the videos!
I'm still watching them but they are really helpful, I really appreciate it.

True about the monitors! I like traditional art as well but I can imagine the pain of trying this with an easel! 😅

I still have to practice some more, but I'll get there. Thanks again!

[dangras-almeida]

I FINALLY DID IT! ..... in parts (and in several tries..... AND just the base.... but I "got there").

Ok, for real now, it's not perfect. Far from it. But it's the first milestone. Have the baselines match the model was a win. I still want to perfect it enough so it doesn't require me so many trials and back and forth of comparing to get things right.

I started playing around with cleaning up the lines a bit. It totally sucks but felt like a good exercise to give it a try.

I already started another model (a woman this time). I (think I) noticed that making the measures for me is hard because, after a while of having my arm straight standing still and moving back and forth, I start to "shake" and it's hard to stand still and make the proper measures. I'm trying to change this somehow. I mean, digitally, it's gotta have an easier way to approach this instead of taking a distance, measure with a pen, coming back, placing down the dot in tablet (while the tablet is one place and the monitor in another).

The closest I got was to say "fuck it, I'll just place the pencil right on top of the monitor", which helped, but also has its problems.

If anything, it's progress people! Yay! \o/

[alexandra.d.93]

Congratulations on your fantastic result !
I think it turned out great, it's really inspirational to see the progress of your tries these last couple of entries. I also really like the cleaned up version of it in your last picture, I think it turned out fantastic !

I haven't tried this assignment yet, but I'm thinking about trying it out today. I'm not sure if what I'll try will work at all, or if I may have gotten it completely wrong. But if holding the pen up against the monitor gets tough, maybe what I'll try to do is mark out the models head and then try to use the length of the head to measure the length of the arm and so on. And also try my best to use the pen method you have been utilizing ^^.

Congratulations once again on an amazing result !

[alrooke64]

try just noting where the top of the head is and then where the lowest part of the body is, then just measure as best you can in estimations of the head length to divide the total height. Then draw the action line of the figure. After this step, continually adjust your measurements and angles without committing bold lines until you have proportions in the right ball park. You literally just need to adjust and adjust until its right, I've had good results and seen improvement doing this.

[alrooke64]

Also, these are great entries and youre seeing a lot of improvement already, keep truckin along mate

[dangras-almeida]

Another milestone achieved! YAY! Finally starting to wash I away how frustrated I was for not being able to do this right (not that I am now but.... you know.... ¯_(ツ)_/¯ it's something!)

This time took me "just" 4 iterations to be able to match(-ish) the lines with the model.
For reference, here is how long it took before:

And there is even more layers down below. Each "version" folder contains several iterations.

Graphic representation of the evolution for each iteration.

After making sure the lines would match, I started to clean up the lines and play around with the skeleton, to understand where things would be.

Finally, got cocky and started to "ink" a final version of it 🤣

Ok, now I need to go back being humble because I'm pretty sure the next try will suck again. Dory from Nemo would say: "Just keep swimming!" 🐟 (<- not the right one, but you get the point 😝).

[dangras-almeida]

Thanks @alexandra.d.93!

Really appreciate it
And please do let me know how was your experience doing this exercise. Till now I'm not sure if I'm doing it right (I think I'm starting to make it too easy for myself and I'm not sure I'm cheating 🤣).

A good approach you have there. Curious to see the results 😃 Good luck!

---

Hey @alrooke64,

Thanks for your comment! I gotta say, something you said made a "click" in my head: instead of trying to find every head measure in the body, I measured the head once and then just duplicated it down below until I found the model's feet. Not only made the process faster but it also made me exercise the reference of where I would put the pencil to measure. Turned out alright I think 😅

I ventured myself with adding the action line before everything else, but it didn't work that well for me, but maybe because I'm not used it (in this context).

Thanks again for the comment, it helped a lot!

[alrooke64]

Hi Dan,
No thanks needed! I'm happy to be of assistance, and I'm glad that something clicked for you. Also, yes I think you've got it now looking at your latest entry, keep pushing along mate.
We will all get there in the end with each others help!
Best,
Al

[dangras-almeida]

Heyooo,

I've finished cleaning up the lines from the previous exercise. Honestly, I'm kinda proud of the way it turned out (altho I can still spot all the errors I've made).

And now back to square zero! YAY!

I notice that what usually makes this exercise go wrong is placing the markers incorrectly (Yeah... duh....). Wait. What I mean is, you measure, you think you are in the right spot, but when you compare, it's all wrong. I'm trying to make sense of why this happens. So far I figured out that the head tilting (touching the ear on your shoulder) really helps reduce any distortion you might have, even with the picture/monitor so close to you (at least I'm having a hard time transporting the markers from one side to the other).

But there are good learnings also:

• Making most references out of a centerline is helping a lot (that usually comes down from the chin).
• After placing a few markers, you can forget about the center line and use the markers as a reference so you don't have to run long distances with the pencil to find out where things will land.

@alrooke64: and totally agree with you! We will get there with the help of each other, for sure! Thanks again!

[alrooke64]

I think maybe youre relying too much on relating everything to head distances and not checking comparative angles as much. I don't know what artists youre looking at, but if youre looking at proko or marc, youre being kind of deceived by their level of skill and video editing. A lot of landmarks and angles they will just constantly see in their minds eye when comparing work to reference because of experience. I will draw on your reference to demonstrate what I mean. Also, Look at Fine art painter Euan Uglow's work, see how he meticulously breaks down measurements from the live model over weeks and months, he leaves these geometric 'tick' marks in his paintings where his process becomes the aesthetic. I hope this helps. I think once anatomy is learned it will become even easier as everything fits together like a puzzle from what Ive seen Marc do in the live sessions. If you're struggling taking the head measurement zoom in a bit so youve got a larger thing to measure, it will make it easier to maintain the measurement, instead of moving your hand down scroll down so everything is maintained. eventually you will be able to eyeball or guess it and can be a bit less hands on.