DaCeronNine - Art School Journey

[JimSt]

It's a fun little story and layouts look good in general.
@patrycja.lerch makes some good points that will improve it.
I think dialogue placement on page 4 panel 2 could be a little better. The current location impacts the timing of what happens in panel 3 as being way more immediate than I think established pacing justifies. There is another thing with it creating a design weight with the other balloons in the next panel that made me want to look at it first, even though the top balloon should be read first. Placing her response in between the two of them could improve the flow as the eye sweeps from his balloon to hers then to her face and then finally moving into the next panel. Timing seems like it might be better, so there's time for her to have put the jacket on.

Looking forward to seeing it progress!
-Jim

[Kaz_0]

The story is fun. Didn't expect grandma to be such a menace Honestly, good job. After 16 pages, I am interested in her and why she started her whole "operation" in the first place. The others have already pointed out some good ideas. The time of the day can also shift the mood quite a bit. The bridge scene could happen at night or maybe before dawn. Since not many people would be around.

[daceronine]

Thank you so much! @patrycja.lerch @JimSt @Kaz_0

These is all great feedback!

Probably shouldn't laugh so hard but I love that old lady. It hit differently on second read when I realised that the guy that saved him was in the same spot before.

Haha! I’m glad that’s how it came through. It is intended to be a bit of dark humor, which I think is good since things turn out for the better in the end.

Ahh was the lady texting him? Nice foreshadowing! You thought about everything

Thanks!, I figured the first time reading it people wouldn’t notice it as it just seems like a “random” action from the crazy old lady, and the second time when people know how things turn out, they will notice some of these little nuances. She’s also supposed to be “stalling” for time, but seeing there wasn’t more pages to drag things out a bit more, that isn’t as notorious.

1) I think it would be interesting if made the angles more extreme. When he looks down to show how far and terrifying it is. You could also exaggerate the water

You’re right here. I do hope to make angles a little more interesting once we get into production. A top angle is a must at some point, a low angle to show the water more clearly should also work, maybe even a very low angle almost from the water looking up? Now that I have the pages more or less defined I’ll try to play a bit with angles and how they affect composition.

2) If you want to make it more funny you could make close up for the ring and make lady's eye shine when she looks at it.

That sounds like a fun idea! Not sure if I can fit it though. Perhaps as part of pg3 or pg4, I’ll try to see how it works. At one point, in the script, grandma kept bugging for more stuff, like his shoes, and even went as far as “suggesting” a better jumping place in the bridge. The whole thing was not only kind of humorous, but I think it worked as grandma was “stalling for time”. She would also basically set the coat on fire and throw it after him, like a “beacon”. Unfortunately there’s just not that much page space, and I was trying hard not to fall into my tendency to “compress” too much.

3) I don't know if you thought about it yet. Weather could set the mood nicely in this situation. Some wind when he is on the bridge and sun when he is waking up. I think wind would look cool when looking at the man from below. But that's just me.

The time of the day can also shift the mood quite a bit. The bridge scene could happen at night or maybe before dawn. Since not many people would be around.

Yes! These are both great ideas! I’ll make it happen during the night, with some wind blowing on the bridge, with the sun coming out in pg 11 (where we see the panoramic and the ambulance growing close). The part of him being rescued from the water is meant to be a symbolism of him “changing”, kind of like “being born again” (which is why grandma always throws them off). Having the sun come out reinforces this symbolism of “starting a new life”.

I immediately thought of Skyrim when he was waking up. Hey you are finally awake hah

Good luck with this and have fun! I am also curious about Nozomu side story

Thanks! I have the Nozomu side story “done”, but got a bit of feedback to improve on it, so figured I would do that before sharing it here. Should be sooner than later!

@JimSt I see what you mean! I think that’s actually where I placed that “yippie” originally, but move it to the left as I was concerned the eye flow would take people to read the lines below it (type type, “now it’s…), instead of the lines to the left. So I moved it to the left. I think that might still be a risk, but putting it all the way to the left as it is does move the pacing a bit too quickly. I’ll try to move things around a bit more. Perhaps by making the first frame a bit smaller it will give me a bit more space on the second frame to accommodate bubbles better in the way you included it.

As you said, I think bubble line weight can be used more effectively to achieve the eye pull effect in that specific part. Maybe even font weight. I’ll update it and share it for feedback.

After 16 pages, I am interested in her and why she started her whole "operation" in the first place.

Haha, honestly I didn’t think that far. It would be fun to explore that. Alas, only 16 pages.

Thanks again for the feedback! Better get grinding!

[mitsuki-youko]

Everyone seems to agree it's better for the scar on Seki to fade eventually. I think I agree. Seki has gone through some rough things, and still needs to go through some more. All of these have left physical and mental scars on him, but part of the journey will be that of healing, so eventually, he'll be able to resolve his personal situations. Just like physical scars will heal up eventually, he will also be able to heal up his mental wounds. I think it works.

Haha that happens with some of my mcs too. with Maxus in particular, there's this scar she's had for like forever that eventually fades by the end (in my world, the body is so advanced in 3050 that people typically don't have scars unless its from something super traumatic)

Unfortunatly that means that I'll have to prioritze this over other works, such as Term 4 or Nozomu works. Not that they will stop, but I'll have to lower their priority as I work on a one-shot to enter into the contest.

ooh that looks exciting!

https://discord.com/channels/371283268215242784/1245965680168140821/1286920740209168386

ooh that seems kinda interesting... not sure what's happening there at the end but story-wise it is intriguing

[daceronine]

ooh that seems kinda interesting... not sure what's happening there at the end but story-wise it is intriguing

Spoilers below I guess, though we already spoiled a lot in the previous comments as well xD. It's also a very short story so not much to spoil.

The overall idea is that while grandma is "stripping" the guy, he is calling someone to save him after he lands in the water below (Steve), take a close look at what she is actually typing in the "new found phone". Once the main guy is saved (I call him Daniel), and he has his stuff together, thanks to Steve's help, one year later, he gets "the message", basically telling him it's now "his turn" to save someone. Due to his experience being saved from the water in the bridge, it's implied he knows he needs to go save someone who is just about to be thrown from the bridge as well, both physically but to also help him just like he was helped by Steve, hence, him running out in a hurry. The cycle is expected to continue, of someone being saved, only to later be called in to save someone else, hence "the legend of the old woman in the bridge". I leave things purposely ambiguous in many places, hoping readers might get a little more with each reread, and to hopefully invite discussion like this post.

Overall, I hope to make the reader chuckle a bit or even gasp, like when grandman is stripping the guy, or when she pushes him off (which I think is unexpected), as well as a little good feeling about people saving each other.

[mitsuki-youko]

ooh that is actually really cool!

[daceronine]

Bit of an update today.

Term 4

Wrapping up this Arnold muscles over skeleton thing. I'm not entirely satisfied with the rendering, I know I can do better and I think I did in the previous ones, but I really want to wrap it up to move on with the dozens of things in the queue, and I think the exercice purpose was met.

Hopefully muscles are on the right place, but let me know if you do see something out of place. Granted I think I went a bit overboard with the effects to the point some of the finer details might be difficult to appreciate.

Manga

No Nozomu today, but started the sketching the designs for the characters that appear in the one shot. Not final, but it gives me a good idea of the main features and how they look. No names, since the idea is that you should be able to easily tell at a glance who is who.

Grandma, MC (I call him Danny), Steve and Barman.

I’m actually wondering if I should go with a more inky approach, with screentones, since that’s how manga is, or use this shaded approach, which I enjoyed doing. I’ll probably do a few tests and see how it works.

It’s actually a refreshing change of pace, since I can use more direct references and it’s quite different from the usual.

I think I also should be able to use this one shot test to test out printing services and see how that works.

So much to do, so little time.

Cheers!

[uggievang]

Ohhhh very interesting I like the more realistic tone of this and like the shading. It will for sure take more time but if its a oneshot you wont have to make like 30 chapters so focusing of the shading can really add a new layer of depth to the comic. I think experimenting with new styles of comic telling could also be beneficial forcing you to learn a new way to tell a story more akin to a western comic. If you have everything planned out already thats fine too but I think pushing yourself with new things will help you learn a lot too. Cant wait to see how it pans out. Also that muscle study is your best one yet.

[mitsuki-youko]

nice shiny muscle study XD

awe yea your realistic drawings all look amazing! lotsa good contrast in your values

tho not used to seeing the style change XD popped in and was like wait whose thread am i on XD but they look awesome nonetheless!

[patrycja.lerch]

Nice work on study!

Shading looks great! It could be fun to do one shot in different style. Refreshing and opportunity to learn something new. I think this style fits the story

[gregorya]

The rough draft of the comic looks good so far. The 4 fourth page is a little too wordy. I would like to know about the old woman. Did she start this process, or is she the next person to start it?

The muscle rendering of Arnold's muscles looks great
I like the designs of the one shot so far. Nice work.

[Kaz_0]

Nice anatomy! Those are some tough poses to do. The only part that feels off is where the Gastrocnemius attaches to the femur. The angle there is very sharp. It feels like it attaches too low + some muscles that are on the other side can peek out. In the pictures you can see how the muscles that attach to tibia go around the Gastrocnemius.

The characters are looking good. New style with screentones could be interesting. Looking forward to your works!

[daceronine]

Thanks @uggievang @mitsuki-youko @patrycja.lerch @gregorya @Kaz_0! You always make my day

@uggievang Yep! That’s the plan, to get out of our comfort zone to do something a little different. Not sure if you got the chance to read the one shot above, it’s in discord, but I shared the link a few posts up. Here it is in case you didn’t get a chance to see it:

https://discord.com/channels/371283268215242784/1245965680168140821/1286920740209168386

As you can see, for now the 16 pgs are kind of locked in, at least in concept and pacing, even though I'm bound to change details like angles and other stuff. The style I hope to do will probably be something like what I posted above, but before I lock it in I want to do a few tests to see what it would look like in inks with screentones, full shading or maybe something else. As per my calendar, I still have a few days to decide, and then we’ll start production page by page.
Thanks for the note about the muscle study! Anatomy is one of those things you never stop learning about, but for now we’ll move to the next item in the guide.

@mitsuki-youko Haha, thanks. I think it’s good to try out different things even if they don’t stick. I should be able to take the learnings back into the usual work.

@patrycja.lerch Thank you! It’s actually been fun to try this out. Usually I can’t sure too many real world references due to the fantasy stuff, but here I can use real world cloth references, photos and so on. It’s definitely refreshing to shake things up!

@gregorya All good question! But unfortunately, we’ll have to keep it a mystery. Though the mystery will hopefully invite readers to discuss and think more about it (which might sound smart on my end, but I really didn’t think that far ahead xD).

@Kaz_0 You’re right! There definitely should be a bit of straighter tendon there and a bit of skin and muscle to fill that gap when the leg bends. I probably won’t be updating this one (mostly due to time), but I really appreciate the lesson regardless to keep it in mind. I’m very thankful for all the notes you have shared with these exercices, I feel I learned a lot more with these corrections.

[uggievang]

Just read it I really like the humor it helps lighten the situation ( not that there is anything funny about what he's going through) but adding in humor is a nice compliment to the story. Im curious about the lore haha and if you ever do want to expand the story you can.

[mitsuki-youko]

Eyy it looks great! Are you going to color it or do a B/W shading like you do in your manga?

Come to think of it ive not seen any of your manga mangas in color... so it'd be interesting to see color in this one - if u happen to have time for coloring.

[daceronine]

Thanks!

I probably won't fully color it, as I'm unsure I'll have enough time to do it properly, not at my current skill level at least. I think my values in B/W are decent, so I'll try to push those further for now, and I'd like to see the costs of black and white printing once the contest is over.

I do want to eventually do some experiments with full color, but probably until I have better control over it and a bit more time. My guess is that a chapter in color would look similar to the covers I usually do, but a bit more simple due to the frame to frame work.

[mitsuki-youko]

oh true i would imagine B/W printing is probs cheaper than color(?) not sure since Black ink is pretty expensive on its own too XD but yea would totes be cool to see something u made printed!

[gregorya]

All good questions! But unfortunately, we’ll have to keep it a mystery. Though the mystery will hopefully invite readers to discuss and think more about it (which might sound smart on my end, but I didn’t think that far ahead xD).

Okay, good to know. Good luck with the comic. I've been looking at indie comics on Indiegogo and it looks like color is much more expensive than black and white.

[daceronine]

I was really hoping to have the story "Hero" ready before this updated, but been busy and held back due to so much stuff that I barely had time to do progress this week.

Also was hit a bit by the depression bug, but we swatted back at it and I'm feeling much better now.

Still, we have some things to share.

Term 4

Putting term 4 on pause for now as I focus on some other things for October, however it doesn’t mean we’re not trying to keep practicing. So did a few more exercices. If bandwith allows, I'll still try to move forward.

First, exercice from discord combining anatomy and rendering

A couple of gesture exercises, nothing crazy

A few muscle identify exercises. Actually did them trying to help another discord user:

Another discord anatomy exercice, insert characters into an environment. This one was surprisingly a lot of fun to do

Manga

Nozomu

Actually, finished one more page. Page 3 of chap 32!

1) Honstly, not much going on. A "Transition page", or an extension of the previous one. Kinda fell back inot my comfort zone for this one (was feeling stressed, so took it easy here). Most elements are recycled from the previous two pages, so rendering wasn't that bad.

2) The third frame is intended to give a little "pause" for dramatic effect, with Seki's mouth kind of in focus (but not rlly), with the camera then focusing on an "empty space" on the fourth frame to bring attention on the words (even bolded "Thank you").

3) Shadow's expression was orignally intended to have a bit more surpirse in it, but decided to keep it more neutral for now. It takes a bit more to really surprise this little bugger.

Wew, that's it for now on this page. As I said, just a transition page, and sadly will have to postpone some work on Nozomu as I move focus to the one shot.

Your Turn one shot

On the one shot, i've been working to implement the feedback provided so far, but haven't compiled it to share it here just yet, and with the dates already looming over me, I need to start on page production ASAP if I want to make decent progress in a timely manner.

I did, however, do a test page just to try out different things. I tried to use half tones, screen tones, cross hatch, the more "smooth shading" style from the designs sheet.

In the end I decided to just go with what I'm mor comfortable with, greytones with heavy shadows. The only adjustment was that I'm increasing blacks much more to give it a more "Noir" feeling.

I can see several areas of improvement for this page, but it was only intended to be a test, so I should now move to rendering the actual pages.

That was actually much more than I thought. Thanks for reading so far! Hope you all have a great week!

[mitsuki-youko]

Also was hit a bit by the depression bug, but we swatted back at it and I'm feeling much better now.

oh no! glad you are feeling better now!

A couple of gesture exercises, nothing crazy

these look great!

Actually, finished one more page. Page 3 of chap 32!

AWE yea

In the end I decided to just go with what I'm mor comfortable with, greytones with heavy shadows. The only adjustment was that I'm increasing blacks much more to give it a more "Noir" feeling.

YOOOO this looks so realistic!! great job!

It totally gives off a noir feeling an i love it!!