Pegasi Concept - Thoughts?

[hanagrace]

So, This is the result of a few months of on-off sketching and pondering over Pegasi. Originally i had intended to make one that would be able to physiologically 'live' in the real world,but then whilst i was on holiday, an idea sprung to me and i ended up giving it Kangaroo back limbs.

I'm quite happy with it so far when i but i would like to gather other peoples thoughts and opinions on it, as well as any criticisms, (anyone good at animal anatomy especially would be helpful) as i still want to make it somewhat plausible...

[unilluminated]

Can you explain what's going on with the back feet? I don't quite get it. I have no idea how that anatomy could function for this creature if he were to try to run or walk...

[eternalcod]

Wings are cool, maybe tail could be bigger. Something peacocky maybe?
Kangaroo focus is really interesting but back legs are bit over pronounced i feel, creature looks like it could tip over whenever. Kangaroos don't really run on four legs, but hop on two so there's a conflict with horse type body which is very front heavy.
Animals that jump really well and run fast would be big cats, maybe there's something?

[Storm-Engineer]

Can you explain what's going on with the back feet? I don't quite get it. I have no idea how that anatomy could function for this creature if he were to try to run or walk...

Exactly my thoughts.

If you want to go from the original mythological concept (100% horse + wings added) towards something more realistic, there are a few things you can do but those legs make no sense, no offense.

If you want the "scientifically accurate" approach, have a look at this article:
http://muddycolors.blogspot.hu/2012/08/its-bird-its-plane-noits-horse.html

But in short, you can't really make it both scientifically plausible and artistically aesthetic. You need to give up one or the other, as it is the case with many fantasy/mythological creatures.

[hanagrace]

Ok. I will take that into consideration. I had thought it would move somewhat like a rabbit when running. I have a run cycle sketched out, and an idea for a walk cycle, but i can see where you're coming from - I do admit the back legs need work as they do not yet work in both of the postures i intend for them to take.

The article also raises some interesting points and so i'll have a think about where to continue with this.

[hanagrace]

... I like your idea for the tail - I actually changed the tail when drawing this as previously it was very bird like, but i felt this fit the creature better. I do agree that something bigger would probably look better though...

Thinking about it you're right, the legs are a bit over-pronounced, You're not the only one to have critisisms over the back legs and i agree that they need some altering. I'm thinking of looking into Tree Kangaroos as they can move each of their back limbs separately, as well as look into the foot a bit as its currently suited to only jumping, and i have a different stance idea for walking (I am not good at expressing this.)

I made a quck sketch changing the stance a little, i'm not sure if the tail feathers are larger or not, though they look longer... Does this look a little better?

[eternalcod]

I like them tail feathers.

Point of balance is pretty much the only real thing that bothers me in your design, so i made a graph about it. Basically i think it needs more junk in the trunk.

Would be super interesting to see the walk cycle.

[hanagrace]

Ohhhh.... ok... I think i get where you're coming from... although 'hanging out'?? what do you mean by that?

Also the walk cycle is kinda like it walking on its tip-toes, causing its weight distribution/point of balance to change... although to be honest i'm not sure if it'll work with its leg design... but bunny-hops are not really the best way to get around when moving slowly... hrn...

[eternalcod]

I should have been clearer with the hanging out, i meant standing still, chilling.

Strong back legs like Kangaroos make sense since a heavy creature should be able to jump high to get into air. If it's a savanna Pegasos maybe make it even more kangaroonish. Mountain Pegasos could look bit like a goat, would only need to climb well and drop off.

It could be a creature that doesn't need to move slowly very well. Most of the time it might be just grazing, but in danger would sprint to high speed to generate lift under the wings. In that scenario bunny hops could work.

I got pretty invested in this making fantasy creature work business.

[hanagrace]

... I'm glad someone else sees where i'm coming from with the kangaroo legs...

To be honest the jumping ability wasn't the only reason i chose those back legs to be honest... Its because Kangaroos, no matter how fast they are going, use the same amount of energy when jumping about, allowing them to jump at high speeds for a relatively long period of time. - but yes it also helps with the pegasus taking flight.

And thats a good thought... as a grazer prey animal its main needs are to eat and get away from predators quickly... Thanks

And believe me, it is very easy to get invested into these things

Here is a quick revision, plus some sketches of my initial ideas for the stance when walking & flying

[pixelsnplay]

What a cool concept -especially your kangaroo influence. One thing that I don't quite get yet is the height of the back. For example when it is in its walking posture the back is fairly level (which makes sense to me) but when it is resting and the legs are down the back is still level and not at more of an angle (if that makes sense?). Kind of like a cat or dog when standing versus sitting.... or would/is that why the top part of the legs straighten out to compensate?
Anyway looks like you have been thinking about this a lot and I am curious what your final design will look like (especially the color and markings~)

[hanagrace]

... I'm not sure if i get what you mean, but i'll try and answer your question.

The posture of the back does change depending on its stance, when walking the back is at more of an angle, with the front half being lower then the back half - which is due to the back limbs being so long. However, when resting or when in a running position the back remains level. Which you can see below

The reasoning for the back limbs 'straightening out' is because to me, when kangaroos stand normally that is the position they take. (although looking back at photos, they are more bent then i originally thought, so i'm going to have to do some more revision on the concept

-revised- Ok, I've had a look the leg posture, but i've found that making the back leg be more kangaroo-like actually makes the pegasus look at if it should fall over, so for now at least i'm going to keep the leg posture as it is

[karidyas]

... but i've found that making the back leg be more kangaroo-like actually makes the pegasus look at if it should fall over

Maybe that's an indication that @eternalcod was correct and the whole design is too front-heavy. You can clearly see it in those sketches you just posted compared to the diagrams he put up. A mark of a good designer is to know when to drop an idea and go in a different direction and to be honest I think that might be the case here, it just seems too goofy to work with. It's not a waste because you've learned from it, the process is the important part. You can keep going if you want and try wrestle it out but I just don't see the kangaroo leg flying (literally haha) without at least some serious revisions such as changing the whole body angle or leg anatomy, or perhaps trying something radical with the tail to balance it out (though this could lead to more goofiness).

[pixelsnplay]

Sorry if I was unclear- hehe typing and thinking at the same time is not always best. With the back more arched in your standing pose, your hanging out pose makes more sense to me. With the back more arched it's more interesting too imo.

[hanagrace]

... I don't want to just drop the idea as i am enjoying the process and the discussion around it, but i do acknowledge the criticisms my design has: several i am planning on taking a look at when i have the time.

The problem is wondering how to make the girdle area work without compromising the muscle mass there or the creatures posture - a query that is important not just for this idea, but any future 6 limbed flying vertebrate i wish to create in the future.

But on the point of it being too 'top heavy', I agree that the figure needs some adjustment, however i think you'll find that most birds are shaped in a way in which the front half is thicker then the back, but most jumping animals have more size in the back half.

(This drawing shows the basic shape my pegasi, and other animals make when in the air. the top figure is my own design (which needs reworking by the looks of things) and below are some examples of the shape Kangaroo, tree kangaroo (which is the bottom right drawing, not the mid-right one) and make horse mid jump, as well as shapes showcasing the form birds take when in flight) - Jumping animals take a different shape in the air then flighing animals, so i feel as if those requesting a larger bottem half were focusing more on its ability to jump, then its ability to fly.

[haith92]

Looks like a cool concept, my advice would be look at horse anatomy, look at the horses run cycle, a great documentry i saw was inside natures giants. In it they dissect a horse its a bit graphic for some but some amazing stuff you can learn, another thing is look at wings anatomy of birds and how they are affected by the wieght of the bird and the air its pushing. And in the end combine what you have learned to give a more believable concept 😃

[hanagrace]

Thanks for the advice

I have seen one of 'inside natures giants' - the one about the whale, but i didn't know they did an episode on a horse. so i'll have a look at that.

I have looked into bird anatomy and the effect wing shapes have on flight. its difficult sometimes however to find information on how the weight and shape effects their ability to fly.

Even so, thanks again.