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Nov '17

Congratulations to all finalists!
Great works I see here and I'm honored to find my unworthy piece among them!

I too was a bit surprised that ,,Cats after people" didn't qualify (it was one of my favorite) but... first of all I believe we all should respect the judges - no matter if they judge accordingly to our preferences or if we qualified or not. Second - maybe it was indeed the matter of concept Sheet requirement... ehhh...

Anyway - congratulations once again to all finalists and... to all who worked hard to bring their works to state "Final image"!

Regards
Jonatan

P.S. As for never ending (for unknown for me reason) debate about splitting artistic tools into 2D, 3D, traditional, digital... and - above all - what is "true art" and who is "true artist".... what I think goes like this: Caravaggio wasn't one of the greatest artists of his time because he was using - what we call today - traditional mediums. He was using the most advanced mediums of his time - that's all. The same story is with Leonardo da Vinci, Michelangelo, Diego Velázquez, Rembrandt... There's a pretty big chance that if they would live today, they would use digital tools because these are the most advanced tools of our time. You can't reproduce on traditional media everything what can be achievable in digital media in reasonable time and effort because they are different mediums and have their own boundaries. I believe that "true artist" should use tools that suits him the best and that suits the task that he has to accomplish. There is no reason to use one hand when you have two hands. That is - as Spock would say - completely illogical :wink:. And for this strange split between 2D and 3D which I never truly understood (however I was once its victim too) - I think the most reasonable split (if any) would be between still image and animation/objects for games. I have spoke (my personal opinion of course). Howgh! :smile:

Nov '17
1

First of all I don't think traditional medium is "true" and digital is "false". There is great paintings make in digital.

There's a pretty big chance that if they would live today, they would use digital tools because these are the most advanced tools of our time.

I don't think so.It's not advanced just help to make people who don't have skills and can't draw to look like they are artist and fool others :smile: As I say you can achieve same result with traditional media.

You can't reproduce on traditional media everything what can be achievable in digital media

  • you can. Just will be more time consuming, maybe depend of your level.

And for this strange split between 2D and 3D which I never truly understood (however I was once its victim too) - I think the most reasonable split (if any) would be between still image and animation/objects for games.

If I capture some key frame from movie or 3d animation is that frame have same value like painting?

Just want to say that there is artists and fake artists. Sorry but I can't have respect for someone who can't draw can't make some classical portrait but can merge some photos put some fx and voala - great job! We all know in contemporary art people who cant draw but make living from one yellow square over the red triangle or make pop art - do you respect these people? Do you believe they are a true artist?

Very famous artist in digital community who work on many AAA titles have character design course which is how to find some fashion models photos and from one take legs from other take head from third take clothes mix that use some fx\filters take from other photo helmet and some gun to look like sci-fi and voala you are great character designer! Do you believe in that? Is that is good character design for you? And this is his workflow all his character art is based on that.

In these days most of the things are fake - fake emotions, fake communications, fake food, fake people, fake art...The good artist rely on his knowledge not on his tools. He can achieve similar result no matter what media or tool he uses. He can make similar painting in ms paint,photoshop,art rage or with watercolor, pastels or acrylic because he have knowledge. The fake artist rely heavy on his tools.If you take from him his favorite tools he can't achieve same result with other tool because he spent his time to learn how to use these tools to fake what other people can do from knowledge and understanding of form lighting anatomy etc.Just like the good artist the fake artist is not connected to some exact media - digital or traditional.

Some example - in sports if you use performance drugs/doping you will not true athlete. It's the same in art - photo bashing, heavy rely on software and "advanced" tools to cover your lack of knowledge and unable to actually paint without paste/copy some other work or photo on canvas, using 3d programs to fake 2d painting because you don't have understanding for light and forms and rely some software to calculate them for you, or overall achieve faster and better results from other who actually paint their works for me is doping. And make you fake artist. And people know it.

I have one riddle for all of you. Why Loish have so many fan base and she don't rely on photos fancy fx and filters for her art and you can't mistake her style and in the other hand one of the judge who are very famous but rely heavy on photos for his art and tutorials have 1/10 from her fan base? Just answer for yourself :smile:

Nov '17

Hi Konstantin
I had a feeling that it may go this way if I will express my thoughts but... just couldn't resist (silly me - sorry for that). I saw this kind of debates many times and I totally respect you - even if I see things differently. I don't want reply verse by verse (and then you will do the same and so on) because I think this is not the place for that kind of discussion. I think it slowly become balancing on the edge of bad taste and I saw a few times when things went very ugly and unpleasant after that. Besides - that kind of discussion is EXTREMELY time and mind consuming (they are endless actually) and I believe it's better to spend our resources on practicing. That one thing connects us despite our differences. So... what do you say if I would propose for both of us to go and create something? I hope I didn't offend you in any way. It wasn't my intention because I respect every artist who share the same struggle every day - no matter what they opinions are. Peace Brother! Maybe we will meet again in another Challenge :smile:

Regards
Jonatan

Nov '17

Congratulations to all those who have been chosen as finalists!!!
Your works are really awesome!
it was an honor to take part in this competition with these "super" artists :blush:

Nov '17
1

Reply to

jonatan-moonchild

Hi Jonatan,
I don't understand what is wrong with this kind of discussion and why here is not a right place for that kind of discussion? For me it's good thing to make people to think and ask themselves questions. In the end it's all about mindset, personal preference and moral vision to cheat and or not cheat. I just have two questions:

Let imagine that you now start your journey in the art. You admire some artist and you go to live painting session, practice to be a better artist learn many things to make better art like him.But one day discover that your favorite artist actually can't really draw and just use things from outside to make his art.You discover that he actually can't drawing anything good with paper and pen. What do you feel? Continue to admire that artist? Do you feel disappointing or feel good because you know that you can draw much better than someone who you think as your idol?

And the second question. Imagine that you and your friend have habit to go to the gym.You want to be in good condition and shape. But you can't see your friend for two weeks and in the next day you see him in the gym.He is very different - very good condition big muscles all what you want to achieve.You are surprised and ask him what is happening - he say to you - "drugs brother, everyone uses these days why don't use it in the end all that important is the end result no matter how you achieve it!" What do you feel? Yes you will continue to be friends but will you change your attitude about him? Will you become like him and start use drugs? Or try to explain to him that this is cheating and it is not good for his health? He use again things outside himself to achieve results who you achieve slower but from yourself and your training/practice!

That's all brother, I wish you all the best.I just want more people to think and rely on themselves rather than rely on things from outside.

In the end I want to say that I know that I have long road to be finalist but want to say something about judging - the more famous you are - more responsible you have to be!
It's not serious to have deadline for people who are in this challenge but you don't have deadline when is your final judging! Also it's not good first you say you will have 20 finalists it each category but later with no explanation reduce it to 10 and 15. Also why you use rules when you don't use them? Use for some people and don't use for other. I talk about disqualification of ,,Cats after people". Why he is disqualified but in the same time people who don't keep that restriction

You may use 3D for the construction of your environment only - no 3D objects or materials should be visible in your final illustration

are finalist. This not say good about the challenge and judging!
Sorry for my English it's not native.

Best regards
Konstantin

Nov '17

The debate is real ahah Guys , I think judges know there craft well enough to know what it took each artist to compose the final image. I think this will be judged well anyway , and 3D is slowly becoming a must in our industry. So , lets just relax for now. 2D will live , and 3D is just another tool that helps you out. If they see that 3D was carrying the artist through his peace , and not his skills , they wil see it . So , lets just take a chill pill , and continue drawing. I have no idea where you get so much time to write such big blog posts xD

p.s Back to drawing....

AcoletModerator
Nov '17

Interesting debate! However, you should definitely make a new topic if you want to continue the discussion (@Konstantin_Kirilov) as this is not the right place for it.

Nov '17

Super cool art! Pretty happy to be up there. Congratulations to everyone!

Nov '17

I can't believe I'm actually made it to the top 15! :blush: Congrats to the all finalists! For those who didn't make it -- keep doing awesome art and eventually you will! <3

Nov '17

Reply to

Konstantin_Kirilov

1: photobashing is a perfectly acceptable technique in the concept art industry; whether it be for film or video and depends on the game you are working on.

2: calling people that uses photobash "fake" artist just shows me how little you know. To photobash well you need to understand value and strong fundamental. Without those skills your photobash will look like a mess.

3: You sound like you've never worked in the industry; you should check out some podcasts from Anthony Jones, Maciej Kuciara, Bobby Chiu. There is one thing in commmon; fundamentals and results. No one is going to care that you spent 3 months on a painting in black and white and then took it color. So your point of nit picking is moot.

4: If you got your feelings hurt during this contest, guess what? You are not at the end of that, there's more on the way as long as you chose to participate in these contests.

5: This is a pretty small community compare to Artstation, I hope you join one of their challenges and see what happens when you call someone a fake artist; because they used photobashing technique.

6: Stop nit picking and use irrelevant analogies, the end result is what matters. You want people's work separated into matte painting and 2D painting; why? The end result is the same; either realistic looking or stylized. Both require composition, value and focal point. You are not doing yourself any favor by nitpicking people's technique. One of my mentor said one important thing to me; I'll share in this thread.

"Technique is BS, rendering is a means to end. Result is what matters, nobody gives a **** about your sketches."

Feel free to debate, but you are not going to win. The contest result is clear and if anyone else like to contest this point? I welcome you to check out artstation's past challenges and read through comments of those winners and people that didn't win.

Please digest what you see on that website and understand that site contains some of the MOST prolific artist in the industry today.

And if you have a question as who I am, I'm the bronze league winner of cubebrush monthly contest back when cubebrush was a much smaller site and when Marc did video critiques for league winners and also a nobody.

Nov '17

Reply to

Konstantin_Kirilov

Further more, let me give some feedback on the piece you did.

1: Your separation of value is not up to par. One of your thumbnails actually looked better than your actual image.

2: do more thumbnails, your first idea is often not your best idea: any concept artist worth their salt knows this and puts it into practice.

3: Like you said you've had plenty of time to do this piece; so you should have polished yours more.

4: Your design language of the piece is inconsistent and confusing. You have 2 seperate types of buildings designs in your painting; it tells me you had very little reference.

5: Your composition is forced, you only thought about how to lead the eyes into the mud castles, but you basically used any tangent possible to achieve this result.
And in the end you have a composition that is a mess.

That is my assessment of your piece, however photobashed other's work looks; if they ended up in the finalist; they did something right. Take it heart and study what they did right and supplement your short comings.

Nov '17
1

Thank you for your opinion :smile:
I try to be short..but it will be hard.

About point 4 - how many times I have to say - I'm not whining about poor me who can't get among the finalist :smile: I'm whining about that Cubebrush don't keep their own rules!

1-3 In short you say that if you don't do photo bashing you can't get into the industry and find job.Wow. thank you for opening my eyes I now will study how to make great photo bashing to have the honor to be good as you :smile: Because You - the great bronze finalist tell me to learn from people who used photo bashing and I will be finalist :smile: And because your Yoda tell you that "The final destination is more important than the journey" :smile:

Now serious. About that the most winners are photobashers it's normal when the judges are people who think like you and rely on photo bashing in their art, to choose people who use it too:)
About separation guess what - I'm not the only one who want separation "Irrelevant analogies" why? Because you don't know what to say? Let me tell you again some "irrelevant analogies" More and more people in the "industry" use photo bashing and some cheating techniques right? Most of the people eat fast and junk food. Because many people eat junk food GMO etc, that not stop to make that food - fake food.

About names that you mention - Bobby Chiu - can you tell me where Bobby use photo bashing that will be interesting :smile:
You make some general conclusion like photo bashing is normal that's norm in the industry etc. Really in which industry? Game industry movie or in the art industry as a whole?
You tell me that most wanted artist use cheating - if you don't use these techniques you can't join the industry and find work and I have to digest that :smile: :smiley: Really ? :smile: Can you please explain me why Loish don't have account in Artstation and have millions followers without use of your favorite techniques like photo bashing 3d paint over etc? Why Guerrilla Games hire Loish to make some character art for them? Why Dave Rapoza stopped making photo-realistic renderings and start making sketchy comics with great success? Maybe people who work as concept artist in Ghibli with watercolors don't have job :smile: Maybe James Gurney have to retire or start making photo bashing to be great? Or Brom? The list can be endless. Not all people like and want hyper-photo-realystic images for their games&movies.

About your feedback about my work...thank you for your time.Thank you for that you make registration only to open my eyes how to become great artist like all others clones who use photo bashing and all their works look the same :smile: All can see my work - yes I know it's not top-notch but this is my level right now.I don't hide behind some new account and nickname :smile:

Nov '17

Despite the fact that in general I agree with @wenqdu and disagree with @Konstantin_Kirilov... this discussion is what I meant about balancing on the edge of bad taste and things going very ugly and unpleasant after that...

Nov '17

Awesome work everybody :smile: Thanks so much @cubebrush for the opportunity :smile: I had a great time, learned a ton and met a lot of great people - the community here is amazing. Thanks so much for everything guys!
Best of luck to all the finalists :smile:

Nov '17

...and you did awesome work yourself! Never stop practicing and I expect to see you among finalists next time! :smile:

Regards
Jonatan

Nov '17

So no new round this week?
suspense intensifies

Nov '17

I think when Cubebrush says - Next week , that means two weeks heh

Nov '17

Come on, it's a huge event, with a lot of judges, so it would be great if all organization issues will be solved till Christmas.